What really happened in the middle east

[haxorico]

I can come to Germany by plan and claim I have been raped and was filmed with a camera and claim the goverment or w/e took it
Everyone can claim stuff...

And I still cant get your point :O are you aginst what israel did or only aginst the last thing that was attacking??? or what the claim were.

[Dekar]

So you say all of those 600 passengers lied? Is that how you want this discussion to go? Do you want me to say there was no Holocaust now? And pretend all the Jews just lied about their dead parents since they just needed a way to disguise they've killed them themselves? I really think we can assume those happenings are facts, it's a fact there was Holocaust and a fact there was video footage which has been taken by the IDF. If you don't agree on those facts I suggest we stop the discussion since we won't move any further no matter what we write.

Example for censorship in Israel:

[matchai]

it's a fact there was Holocaust[/img]

So Jews just enjoy starving themselves and sleeping in wooden bunkers then getting themselves killed after doing slave work?

[Dekar]

it's a fact there was Holocaust

So Jews just enjoy starving themselves and sleeping in wooden bunkers then getting themselves killed after doing slave work?

@Matchai:
What are you trying to tell me? Don't you believe there was Holocaust? In that case I probably really have to stop the discussion at that point since denying Holocaust is illegal in Germany and I have to obey German law.

@Haxorico:
I am pro Israel and I still think it's a much better country than the surrounding ones, still I dislike the unnecessary killings and censorship going on in your country. We have censorship here as well, but only for things like denying Holocaust so I don't really care. Israel on the other hand denies their crimes of war and even imprisons their own citizens for giving evidence to journalists in other countries. You may search for "Anat Kamm" if you want to find more information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anat_Kamm

[haxorico]

Well I only tell you what I learn as can probably assume we learn that at school.. Though I must agree that at this point you are right... Some stuff probably were censord though I still don't think its un-justified... as I said before if you cross a border after being warned you must expect some consequenses (hope I wrote it right) and to be honest in my opinion.. the "punishment" wasn't brutal enough

As if I remember your earlier statments you have agreed that they shouldnt have just "sail forward" or w/e..

[Dekar]

Ofc it was Israels right to stop them, the whole action intended to provoke Israel. They could have handed the supplies over to have Israel deliver them. Still I think killing them was wrong. They could have damaged the ship to make it immovable. But I hate how Israel lies about shooting passengers before entering the ship. If they had no dark secret to hide there would be no reason to censor the camera footage. So obviously they did unnecessary killings. They should release all the footage and they should punish those who unnecessarily killed passengers. I fully understand them shooting back after being attacked, but the corpses of the dead clearly show that there have been people killed who weren't attacking the IDF. Like the journalist who was taking photos while the IDF shot him right in the head from their chopper above him! In my opinion that was wrong. In either case they should fully disclosure the truth and stop censorship! If they WANTED TO PUNISH them (like you said you would do) they should stand by their action and say they did attack them without being attacked first. But what they do is lie about it.

[haxorico]

This weekend I visited 1 of the Israeli Commando soldiers.. He was the first to go down in 1 of the helicopter and he was the one thrown from the top of the ship.

He broke a-lot of bones in his body and this is what he told me (translated)
"When I was going down the rope I looked down and I saw all the "mobs" there, I looked up at my commanding officer and he told me "get down" and so I did. Before I even hit the bottom they grabed me, took of my mask and beated me with metal clubs and sticks (he broke a bone in his skull) then I was thrown to the bottom of the ship. I had a Paintball gun at my hand when I got down and a pistol at my belt. Lucky me they didn't notice the pistol and took it. The paintball didn't help me much".

This man is still in Rambam Hospital. He has no permanent injuries and will be back to 100% back in some time. He isn't the only injured Soldier (there was about 7 I think) and some are permantly handicap.. And I just want to state my point in this place.

1) If there is any video it should be released I'd like to see it
2) Blasting the shit out of that ship with a missle would have been better as I can't understand why risk our soldiers and why they have to suffer because "we are trying to look nice" not that it is working anyhow. The life of 1 Israeli, Civilian or Soldier is to me worth alot more then all those on-board the "Marmara" ship.

[Bartimaeus]

2) Blasting the shit out of that ship with a missle would have been better as I can't understand why risk our soldiers and why they have to suffer because "we are trying to look nice" not that it is working anyhow. The life of 1 Israeli, Civilian or Soldier is to me worth alot more then all those on-board the "Marmara" ship.

By that statement alone, you, sir Super Race, would probably make an excellent Nazi.

[Dekar]

@haxorico:
So how did the explain the shooting from their ship and chopper? How did he explain those who died before they boarded the ship? How the unreleased footage they took? You know those guys are soldiers, they likely have orders to lie about what happened. In a country like yours where there isn't any freedom of speech this is how they brainwash the mob, they spread lies and ban the truth.

I don't know if it's in your news, but you do realize Israel denied the United Nations to independently investigate the case? And how they announced to do their own pseudo-investigation which doesn't even allow those who investigate to interview the involved soldiers?

[haxorico]

By that statement alone, you, sir Super Race, would probably make an excellent Nazi.

Actually I don't see it this way. I don't have any hatred for arabs.. I got neibors that came from lebanon and I know planty of arabs in my country, I do NOT hate any specified religion or "kind of people".
Though, now. When my brother is in the army, and when I'm soon to go there, and alot of other people I know are over there.
I cant understand the point of risking them or myself when it isn't necessary.

@dekar.

I can't see much about the news I hear people more as I'm not home that much. Not for nothing I'm in-active
If there are any more tapes Ill be happy to see them.

And in my opinion if they fired before they got on-board, well imo and I think I said it planty of times. They should have BLASTED THAT BOAT. and I ment with rockets.. Crossing the zone even tough you got a warning isn't somthing that you can do and remain un-punished.

Anyhow I think we are actually talking the same stuff over and over again can we get back to the main vid on 1st post?
Or any new detail about the Marmara ship? :O