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 Post subject: Re: Duel GPUs
PostPosted: January 21st, 2012, 6:43 pm 
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I don't see any difference at it. I was only troubled by max fps. I never saw any other difference. But well I guess the same can be told about FOV as I couldn't play MW3 due to low FOV while my friend had no problem
By the way. Isn't this way off topic?


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 Post subject: Re: Duel GPUs
PostPosted: January 21st, 2012, 7:10 pm 
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You don't even know what VSYNC is :/ Without it you get those artefacts on fast movements:
Spoiler:
Image

Try moving the mouse fast (like in turning 180° to shoot the guy behind you before he shoots you). You should notice the artefacts. Besides when you disable VSYNC the FPS go up, but many frames are only partially shown, some aren't shown at all. Thus the effective framerate is much lower.

Enabling VSYNC synchronizes the frame rendering with your monitor refresh cycles. In result the PC tries to generate a new frame for every screen refresh, that's the best result your monitor is able to output. When enabling VSYNC limits you to 60fps, that means that your monitor can't output more than 60fps anyway. So get a 120hz screen instead ;) (not needed imo, >40fps is fine for me)

When you disable VSYNC several frames are drawn during the same refresh cycle, resulting in those shitty artefacts. Also any excess frames are just dropped.


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 Post subject: Re: Duel GPUs
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2012, 1:56 pm 
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I am also a huge vsync and antialiasing fan. Before doing anything else, I will enable those. I'd rather turn my graphics all the way down than disable them. Anomalies like screen tearing and pixelated/jagged edges kill me. Anisotropic filtering is next...and then everything else.

People always recommend that I turn off vertical synchronization - I have no idea why. I always have it on.

P.S. It's really dual. Duel is when, like you fight someone. I challenge you to a duel to the death, for example. Dual is two of something at once. I'm dual wielding swords. Or something.


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 Post subject: Re: Duel GPUs
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2012, 2:00 pm 
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I played alot of games, including BF3 where I really really try to notice a difference in the anti-analaising and other stuff. I can see a difference (at BF3 that I played lately) only at the texture. I don't notice anything else


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 Post subject: Re: Duel GPUs
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2012, 2:09 pm 
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Antialiasing Off: http://www.geforce.com/Active/en_US/sha ... AA-Off.jpg
Antialiasing On: http://www.geforce.com/Active/en_US/sha ... -AA-4x.jpg

Pay attention to the electricity tower on the mountain to the left, as well as the fences, and...uh, well actually basically everything. Without antialiasing, there are so many jagged edges that'll make your eyes bleed if you look at them long enough. If you can't see it, I don't think it'll matter what settings you run a game at because you're obviously blind. :P

Anisotropic Filtering Off: http://www.geforce.com/Active/en_US/sha ... AF-Off.jpg
Anisotropic Filtering On: http://www.geforce.com/Active/en_US/sha ... AF-15x.jpg

Look at the wall to the left, (though not the portion closest to you). Without it enabled, it becomes blurry and loses its detail as it gets farther away. Also, look at the ground. Smaller details and shapes are lost without it, (such as the dirt on the white and yellow lines on the road).

Thanks to Tweak Guide for the images. I was going to do it myself, but this was faster, ;o

Also, shut the hell up, Dekar. A refresh rate/FPS of 40 is not good enough. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Duel GPUs
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2012, 3:14 pm 
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I just observed those and well I gotta say, I don't see any difference. The only thing I can see is that on the x15 AF the yellow line on the road is more visible.
I just cant see a difference. Sorry, I tried many times before and I just can't, as hard as I try.
So I just turn it off, no AA and AF makes the game runs smoother and well if I don't see a difference. I think its the best as it can get.
Allthough I gotta say that if a my fps<50 I will notice. If you show me a video of 50 and 30 FPS I will see a difference. Thats why I happened to enabled vsync on BF3. I can't stand 30 FPS.

As of gaming in general. Even if I had a duel GTX 590 or w/e that can run BF3 on ultra settings. I would still set it to LOW on MultiPlayer. I will takeout as many stuff out of the way as possible, including explosions, smoke, blood, the tiny pieces that fly away when you blow up stuff (I forgot the name), make the gun not move when I shoot it, make the gun not show any effect what so ever when I shoot it or even remove the gun from the HUD as it serves no real purpose. Also increase the FOV to 90+. MW3 gave me a headache when I played with it, and I wasn't the only one, an FOV smaller than 90 is BS for PC gaming.
Why is that? Well that is how I play MP, I don't care about all the effects, they distract me from killing other people. When I played Wolfenstein Enemy Territory. I removed all the above. You can see videos where the HUD is just at some corner (or several) and the main focus is just what you can see now.

Now, on SP.. Thats a different league. on SP I played BF3 on Ultra settings to enjoy the game graphics as much as I can. I don't care about those bots running around, if it takes me a little longer to spot them, so be it, they are just some dumb bots and if I die I just replay the mission or checkpoint or w/e I was on. The SP on the past years is less focused about the gaming and more about the SHOW, its alot more cinematic and has more effects etc... And I think that BF3 is a great example for that.
On MP... I just wanna kill people and be a fragger ;) and the graphics + HUD are the first to be taken down to the minimum.


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 Post subject: Re: Duel GPUs
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2012, 4:02 pm 
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haxorico wrote:
Allthough I gotta say that if a my fps<50 I will notice. If you show me a video of 50 and 30 FPS I will see a difference. Thats why I happened to enabled vsync on BF3. I can't stand 30 FPS.

You do know that video has 24fps/hz right? They call it 1080p24 or 24p. Thus if I showed you video you definitively couldn't see it. Television in some areas has 30hz, but there isn't anything better than that. Blurays and cinemas always use 24p. Also worth mentioning is 1080i50 which is totally fucked up. It runs at 50hz, but each "frame" only contains half of the image. All even frames contain all even pixel lines, and all odd frames contain odd lines. That needs filtering to compensate it which makes it blurry again -> avoid at all costs!

-> You have no chance spotting a difference between 30 and 50fps on a youtube video :P

I do agree that you can notice 40fps vs 60fps, especially for SLI (Also Crossfire?) setups since those tend to have those weird mikrolags, but I wouldn't complain about it.

When I watch movies, even though my setup runs at 24hz (which is perfect for Bluray), I can easily spot the lag when the camera moves. On 60hz it gets far worse since some frames are shown twice, others thrice and thus that adds some weird kind of lag. The problem isn't easy to spot on small screen since things don't move too far between the frames, but on huge screens (I guess my 88" can be considered huge) things may move a huge distance between two frames and thus is becomes noticeable as lag.

So if you people complain about 40fps, but don't complain about people on TV lagging, then I can't take you serious :P I guess for games it is easier to notice since there is a lot of fast movements, but still movies have that problem soooo much worse.

@Bart:
I like how he said duel again right after you told him. :P
Oh and I am totally on your side when it comes to AA and AS. Same priorities for me. Though the more DPI you have, the less relevant is AA. For 300dpi 2xAA should be enough.

@Haxo:
The yellow line is more visible for the version without it. Don't you see those textures being uber blurry? -.-"

PS:
Youtube video:
Code:
VIDEO:  [H264]  1920x1080  24bpp  24.000 fps  2650.3 kbps (323.5 kbyte/s)


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 Post subject: Re: Duel GPUs
PostPosted: January 22nd, 2012, 5:40 pm 
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I don't remember why, but basically games are not videos. A game looks and feels different when it's running 60FPS compared to 24FPS. It even looks different when running 120FPS vs. 60FPS, (when using a proper monitor, of course).

Also, congratulations, Haxorico. You've just proved you're blind. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Duel GPUs
PostPosted: January 23rd, 2012, 1:59 am 
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Movies tend to blur movements, still they lag as hell on fast movements. They have a linear distribution of frames over time, whereas that might vary for games, but that's all. Games tend to drop fps for several ms on huge effects like explosions etc, that doesn't really hurt the overall fps, but is a noticeable lag.


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 Post subject: Re: Duel GPUs
PostPosted: January 23rd, 2012, 2:37 am 
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Well then. I guess you call a soccer referee blind. Just like anyone else...
I don't watch a lot of TV but I do watch frag movies from ET.
And a guy called -Max- from UltraViolet Productions (which is about 5 guys I assume) releases the videos on both 25FPS and 50FPS and I do notice a difference. I can't link as I'm on my mobile.

More to the point. I don't mind AA/AS/Shadows/lightning/terrain/micro detail. Sorry I just don't :)


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